Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Stepping forward/stepping back

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Stepping forward/stepping back
- bmeltzer

I do have a lot of faith in the Flyers young guys to continue to improve. I also think that Danny Briere has a nice bounce back season.

While it seems probable that Hartnell remains with Giroux, I wonder if Laviolette will experiment with a Hartnell-Briere-Voracek line. I was actually surprised that wasn't a regular line last year, prior to Hartnell catching fire playing with Giroux and Jagr.

In depth article from Micheal Russo of the Minneapolis Star Tribune of the process in coming to terms with Parise, and Suter. Very good read.

The article states Parise, and Suter's camp would call teams and let them know they were no longer in the running. From everything I have read Holmgren never received a phone call from either player's camp letting him know the Flyers were no longer in the mix. How is it possible that the Flyers had the top money offers to both players and were never even taken seriously? That's unprecedented. And not a great sign.

http://www.startribune.co...ll&prepage=1&c=y#continue

one of the big issues many have overlooked is the synergistic effect jagr had on giroux, hartnell and the PP. he'll be missed and with so many of these guys being rookies and/or having career yrs, the team could use another scorer.

In depth article from Micheal Russo of the Minneapolis Star Tribune of the process in coming to terms with Parise, and Suter. Very good read.

The article states Parise, and Suter's camp would call teams and let them know they were no longer in the running. From everything I have read Holmgren never received a phone call from either player's camp letting him know the Flyers were no longer in the mix. How is it possible that the Flyers had the top money offers to both players and were never even taken seriously? That's unprecedented. And not a great sign.

http://www.startribune.co...ll&prepage=1&c=y#continue
- PLindbergh31

Holmgren's never said whether they received a "out of the running call" or not. Other teams came out and stated when they knew they were not in the running. Doesn't mean that the Flyers were ignored and didn't even get a courtesy call.

Also, despite what the column says, it sure seems pretty clear that Parise and Suter had a LeBron-Bosh type idea to play together from the very start. Both were offered very competitive offers from the teams they left and supposedly "really wanted" to stay with.

I think that their plan all along was to end up in Minnesota and that they used the other offers to drive their price up as high as it could be.

one of the big issues many have overlooked is the synergistic effect jagr had on giroux, hartnell and the PP. he'll be missed and with so many of these guys being rookies and/or having career yrs, the team could use another scorer.
- isaiah520

They way I see it is this. Hartnell, Talbot, and Simmonds will probably drop off in the 5-7 goal range if you look at their career averages. While Briere, Schenn, and Voracek (if placed on wing with Giroux) will likely score more this year.

I think the Flyers can definitely use another guy that can be counted on to score 15-20 goals. Doan would be perfect. Not very confident the Flyers will be able to land him.

Holmgren's never said whether they received a "out of the running call" or not. Other teams came out and stated when they knew they were not in the running. Doesn't mean that the Flyers were ignored and didn't even get a courtesy call.

Also, despite what the column says, it sure seems pretty clear that Parise and Suter had a LeBron-Bosh type idea to play together from the very start. Both were offered very competitive offers from the teams they left and supposedly "really wanted" to stay with.

I think that their plan all along was to end up in Minnesota and that they used the other offers to drive their price up as high as it could be.
- Jsaquella

Fair points. You could be right. For all we know the Flyers offers weren't the highest for either player. Holmgren usually keeps things close to the vest.

one of the big issues many have overlooked is the synergistic effect jagr had on giroux, hartnell and the PP. he'll be missed and with so many of these guys being rookies and/or having career yrs, the team could use another scorer.
- isaiah520

The thing is, there were several guys that also underachieved, or dealt with injuries and could be better.

Some of those young guys that had career years will now be seeing more ice time in scoring line and PP roles, and could even be better.

I'm not against adding another top six forward, especially one with size who plays with grit, such as Doan. But I see value in letting the young guys assume the key roles and growing. It might hurt the short term chances at a Cup, but it increases the long term probability of winning if these guys can step in and play at high levels.

Fair points. You could be right. For all we know the Flyers offers weren't the highest for either player. Holmgren usually keeps things close to the vest.
- PLindbergh31

I just see it as two guys that signed in Minnesota, after declaring their desire to stay put, and ignoring offers that were for similar money and years to do just that.

I also seriously doubt any agent would poison the well with a team like the Flyers without a courtesy call to Holmgren saying, "Thanks, but no thanks"

In depth article from Micheal Russo of the Minneapolis Star Tribune of the process in coming to terms with Parise, and Suter. Very good read.

The article states Parise, and Suter's camp would call teams and let them know they were no longer in the running. From everything I have read Holmgren never received a phone call from either player's camp letting him know the Flyers were no longer in the mix. How is it possible that the Flyers had the top money offers to both players and were never even taken seriously? That's unprecedented. And not a great sign.

http://www.startribune.co...ll&prepage=1&c=y#continue
- PLindbergh31

I thought I read somewhere that Suter notified Homer the night before on the 3rd and told him the Flyers were out. And Parise contacted the Flyers the morning of the 4th.

Poor sources most likely.

I just see it as two guys that signed in Minnesota, after declaring their desire to stay put, and ignoring offers that were for similar money and years to do just that.

I also seriously doubt any agent would poison the well with a team like the Flyers without a courtesy call to Holmgren saying, "Thanks, but no thanks"
- Jsaquella

Another good point. There wasn't anything the Flyers really missed out on while waiting out both guys to make a decision, so not really the biggest deal in the world. Players like McClement, and Konopka who could have been useful players for the Flyers could have still been signed if the Flyers were interested.

Would love to see Doan in orange, and black. Who wouldn't. He would be a beloved player.

Unfortunately I give the Flyers no better than a 10% chance of signing him. I think 60% he stays in Phoenix, and then there will be no shortage of suitors, Rags, Pens, Wings just to name a few.

I thought I read somewhere that Suter notified Homer the night before on the 3rd and told him the Flyers were out. And Parise contacted the Flyers the morning of the 4th.

Poor sources most likely.
- 77rams

I don't follow any of the Philly writers on Twitter, nor do I read any of their articles, so if they reported it, I wouldn't have seen it. So you might be correct.

I do have a lot of faith in the Flyers young guys to continue to improve. I also think that Danny Briere has a nice bounce back season.

While it seems probable that Hartnell remains with Giroux, I wonder if Laviolette will experiment with a Hartnell-Briere-Voracek line. I was actually surprised that wasn't a regular line last year, prior to Hartnell catching fire playing with Giroux and Jagr.
- Jsaquella

I'd like to see more of a purer scorer on that line instead of V. Jake is more a hold it, set 'em up kinda guy and I'd want Giroux with the puck as much as possible.

With Hartnell crowding the net down low, I'd prefer someone who could score from 10-20 feet out. It would give the line better balance.

Another good point. There wasn't anything the Flyers really missed out on while waiting out both guys to make a decision, so not really the biggest deal in the world. Players like McClement, and Konopka who could have been useful players for the Flyers could have still been signed if the Flyers were interested.

Would love to see Doan in orange, and black. Who wouldn't. He would be a beloved player.

Unfortunately I give the Flyers no better than a 10% chance of signing him. I think 60% he stays in Phoenix, and then there will be no shortage of suitors, Rags, Pens, Wings just to name a few.
- PLindbergh31

I agree on Doan. There's zero question his preference is to stay in Phoenix, and the only way he's leaving is if the team really looks to be moving.

McClement is the one guy I wish they could have added, although there was a report that he wanted a legitimate shot at a 3rd line role, which wasn't happening here.

I'd like to see more of a purer scorer on that line instead of V. Jake is more a hold it, set 'em up kinda guy and I'd want Giroux with the puck as much as possible.

With Hartnell crowding the net down low, I'd prefer someone who could score from 10-20 feet out. It would give the line better balance.
- 77rams

I'm saying Hartnell-Briere-Voracek.

I agree on Doan. There's zero question his preference is to stay in Phoenix, and the only way he's leaving is if the team really looks to be moving.

McClement is the one guy I wish they could have added, although there was a report that he wanted a legitimate shot at a 3rd line role, which wasn't happening here.
- Jsaquella

Doan strikes me as a guy who would take less money to stay in Phoenix. I would offer him a contract of 3yrs 16 million in that range. If he hits the market I don't think that would get it done. I would be skeptical giving Doan a 4 yr deal.

I'm saying Hartnell-Briere-Voracek.
- Jsaquella

Bad reading on my part. Ignore the last response.

I'd like to see more of a purer scorer on that line instead of V. Jake is more a hold it, set 'em up kinda guy and I'd want Giroux with the puck as much as possible.

With Hartnell crowding the net down low, I'd prefer someone who could score from 10-20 feet out. It would give the line better balance.
- 77rams

I still think the best move is to put Briere with Hartnell and Giroux. Breire can score 30+ on that line. It also keeps him away from playing Center, which magnifies his defensive shortcomings.

Bad reading on my part. Ignore the last response.
- 77rams

No problemo

I still think the best move is to put Briere with Hartnell and Giroux. Breire can score 30+ on that line. It also keeps him away from playing Center, which magnifies his defensive shortcomings.
- PLindbergh31

Any young Mike Bossy's out there to trade for? That type pf player would fit in nicely with Giroux and Hartnell.

I do have a lot of faith in the Flyers young guys to continue to improve. I also think that Danny Briere has a nice bounce back season.

While it seems probable that Hartnell remains with Giroux, I wonder if Laviolette will experiment with a Hartnell-Briere-Voracek line. I was actually surprised that wasn't a regular line last year, prior to Hartnell catching fire playing with Giroux and Jagr.
- Jsaquella

I am expecting big things from Voracek personally. I really liked how he developed in the second half. I think he can bring more O this year and fill some of the gap.

Garth is saying that Doan is likely done in PHX. I would love to get him on board here if the cap hit and years make sense.

Also, I read articles like this one

http://www.thehockeynews....ch-in-slow-offseason.html

and I realize they lost out on Suter and Parise, but to me it would not have made sense to take on tons of cap money or to gut the team a year after making the entire roster over. I'd certainly have taken Suter, but I am not crying that we didn't make a big trade that gutted the team.

i bet 10 bucks simmonds gets more goals and assists

I still think the best move is to put Briere with Hartnell and Giroux. Breire can score 30+ on that line. It also keeps him away from playing Center, which magnifies his defensive shortcomings.
- PLindbergh31

I was thinking the same thing. Schenn could center the second line with read and jake. Coots on the 3rd between simmonds and talbot/rusty.

I am assuming that Holmgren is going to add a Dman before the season starts. If he does not, do the Flyers have enough offensive jam on the back end to support the forwards on attack. If forward production falls off it may have more to do with a lack of support from the D.

I am expecting big things from Voracek personally. I really liked how he developed in the second half. I think he can bring more O this year and fill some of the gap.

Garth is saying that Doan is likely done in PHX. I would love to get him on board here if the cap hit and years make sense.

Also, I read articles like this one

http://www.thehockeynews....ch-in-slow-offseason.html

and I realize they lost out on Suter and Parise, but to me it would not have made sense to take on tons of cap money or to gut the team a year after making the entire roster over. I'd certainly have taken Suter, but I am not crying that we didn't make a big trade that gutted the team.
- Hextall271

i read that hockey news article and found it ridiculous. so if the flyers don't make a total overhaul every year they're somehow doomed to fail? brilliant analysis.